Aira: A heat pump disruptor

[00:00:01.650] - Jon Slowe

Welcome to Talking New Energy, a podcast from LCP Delta. I'm Jon Slowe.

[00:00:09.160] - Sandra Trittin

And I'm Sandra Trittin. And together we are exploring how the energy transition is unfolding across Europe through conversations with guests from the leading edge of the transition.

[00:00:19.210] - Jon Slowe

Hello, and welcome to the episode. Today, we're looking at the hard to tackle topic of decarbonising heat. And one thing we know we need for sure Here's lots of energy, fresh ideas, enthusiasm to tackle this thorny challenge that we need to get to grips with across Europe. So I'm delighted to welcome today a new kid on the block in the heat pump sector, a company called Aira, that many of you listening may have heard of. And if you haven't, here's a chance to find out a bit more. So, without further ado, let's say hello to Pamela Brown, who is Chief Marketing Officer and Commercial Director at Aira UK. Hello, Pamela.

[00:01:01.520] - Pamela Brown

Hi there, Jon. Great to be here with you today.

[00:01:04.790] - Jon Slowe

Thanks for joining. So, can you tell our listeners a bit more than just you're the new kid on the block? So, who are Aira? Where are you? Where are you based? Where are you formed? What are you doing? How are you going to shake up this market?

[00:01:20.490] - Pamela Brown

Oh, gosh. A lot of questions in there. I'll try and unpick them as we go. So Aira, I love that with the new kid on the block. We're a Swedish-based company, and actually, our founder, Vargas Holdings, is a venture-based VC, and they had already tackled two of the largest CO₂ emitters, steel and transport, with H2 Green Steel (H2GS), Northvolt, and Pallarium, companies you may have heard of and then we really started to tackle what's the third largest emitter of CO₂ across Europe. I was quite surprised by this, is residential heating. Believe it or not, 10% of all of Europe's CO₂ emissions come from heating homes and providing hot water. In some countries, like in Switzerland and the UK, it's as much as 17% and for the UK, 16%.

[00:02:15.400] - Jon Slowe

It's quite a mission-driven organisation then, from the way you describe it.

[00:02:20.410] - Pamela Brown

Absolutely. Vargas has always set out their vision. They're clear on it, which is to remove 1% of global CO₂ emissions. This 10% of CO₂ emissions for residential heating is clear there was a problem. When you look at, well, why is that? Well, there are 130 million boilers, fossil fuel boilers, that are heating homes across Europe. For us, Aira, we're now called Aira, but we weren't back two years ago, and we were scoping out this idea, but it's really clear to us that the boiler is the enemy. We got to work trying to build a solution to tackle this huge challenge, which obviously will support European countries to meet their sustainability goals. But I think personally as a CMO and as a customer champion, it's really about helping people to save money on their heating bills. Heating bills over recent years have exponentially increased. More than ever, where you can help customers to reduce the cost to heat their home in their hot water, which, let's be honest, these are necessities. That's really where we came from, where we started. We believe the solution is obviously Aira. We set about building a direct-to-consumer brand, selling and installing heat pumps across homes in Europe.

[00:03:45.370] - Jon Slowe

You've raised a lot of money in building your organisation?

[00:03:49.230] - Pamela Brown

Yeah, we've raised to date €195 million across our Series A and Series B. In June this year, we actually announced a €200 million debt facility with BNP Paribas, and that really funds our FinCo in Germany. That enables us to offer customers a monthly payment plan to pay for their heat pump solution. I was just going to say, look, we're a fully vertically integrated business, and we can chat more about that. Our mission is really to get Europe off of gas and accelerate the decarbonisation and electrification of residential heating. When we talk internally, if you work for our company, you'll go through your brand training. Our mission, as we like to call it internally, is its clean energy tech for every home. We start with a heat pump because heat pumps are one of the most significant ways people can reduce their CO₂ emissions. Obviously, being four times more efficient than a boiler, instantly, you use less energy for the same comfort heating output. As I said, saving people money. We announced the company in Sweden back in June 2023. At the end of last year, we then launched in three markets. I think being a start-up, we thought one wouldn't be enough, and we just did three all at once, which is maybe we talk about the challenges.

[00:05:18.580] - Pamela Brown

But we launched in Germany, Italy, and the UK at the end of last year. I would say this year is our first full year now in operation, and we've been selling and installing heat pumps. Again, in my role as comms, it's been lovely to hear headlines like being known as the Spotify or the Netflix of heating.

[00:05:44.310] - Jon Slowe

Is that part of the brand training and brand orientation?

[00:05:48.050] - Pamela Brown

Yeah, exactly. Well, I think the reason people coin us as Spotify, because we're a Swedish company, that's where we started, like Spotify. But this idea of monthly payment plan. It's not a subscription. It's a monthly payment plan. A customer owns the heat pump system, but you can pay for it monthly, and that takes away one of the significant barriers, which is high upfront cost.

[00:06:11.340] - Jon Slowe

Yeah. You're doing everything from the manufacturing of the heat pump through to the installation, servicing of it, financing of it in customers' homes?

[00:06:22.940] - Pamela Brown

Yeah. We've taken a completely vertically integrated approach. The reason we did that was because when we really delved into why is heat pump adoption so slow? Because actually, if you look at Sweden, 60% of all heating systems are already heat pumps, 92% of new heating systems installed are heat pumps, and they only have 1% of their CO₂ emissions are from residential heating. They've had heat pumps for decades. If you're Swedish, some of my colleagues, Daniel, who's our UK CEO, he had never seen a boiler until he came over to London the beginning January. I think it was January 2023. We're the same age. I've grown up with them because I'm born and bred in London. But obviously for him, never seen one. So, it's remarkable. So, when we were looking at what are the barriers, you guys will know this, and maybe, Klara, you want to touch into this. But low customer awareness and understanding, high upfront costs, really fragmented journeys. I could go on about how difficult it is or was back in 2022, if you want to get a heat pump, the number of people you need to talk to, the long-time frames, et cetera, and then artificially low gas prices. Whilst Aira, we try and influence that last one, what the vertically integrated business does on the first three, it really helps to solve for those problems.

[00:07:59.180] - Jon Slowe

Yeah, you take of that. You're taking ownership of those challenges.

[00:08:02.360] - Pamela Brown

Exactly. We designed our own heat pump hardware, created our own software, and with that, we can obviously then optimise and create a superior product experience, let's say. We digitise a lot of the tools that clean energy experts and technicians need in their job to help speed things up. We manufacture our own heat pumps as well. We took over a factory in Poland that was actually producing Volvo buses and transformed that into producing heat pumps and then we sell direct to customers, and we go into customers' home. We invest a lot on the education side.

[00:08:44.520] - Jon Slowe

The manufacturing of heat pumps, how hard did you have to think about that? Because you could have... There's lots of heat pumps already being manufactured. So, did you think about whether you needed to do that yourself, or you could have white-labelled or partnered? Was that an easy decision or did you have to think about that?

[00:09:05.840] - Pamela Brown

I think there was a lot of thinking that went into making that decision. And we do, Jon, even today, we do install other heat pumps, Daikin in Italy, Vaillant as well. When we first launched, we launched with Vaillant heat pumps. For us, it was really about being able to deliver a superior customer experience. Looking further ahead in the whole clean energy tech ecosystem, actually being able to then optimise. We talk about our heat pump being... It has air intelligence. Being able to leverage AI, machine learning to really help deliver the efficiencies and then the cost savings to the customer. So, in that sense, being able to own the whole journey enables us to do that. The other thing about heat pumps, and we just done a survey looking at consumer attitudes to heat pumps. And one of the other barriers people talk about is it will have a negative impact on the aesthetics of my home. I think it's probably a myth to some extent because there are some beautiful heat pumps on the market. Obviously, I think the Aira one is the best. You've got very beautiful. I I think generally, though, that people worry they're big, they're noisy, they're ugly.

[00:10:35.320] - Pamela Brown

How's that going to look in my back garden? I mean, I'm so proud of mine that I have it on my driveway in front of my garage. It took me 10 months in planning permission to get it, but now it's there. Every time I drive onto my drive, I feel really proud to see the Aira heat pump there. But again, that's another component. Journalists have looked at our heat pump and said, Oh, it's the sexiest heat pump on the market. I never thought you could put those two words together, sexy heat pump but there we go.

[00:11:03.260] - Jon Slowe

Well, I never thought you could put Spotify. I never thought you could put Spotify and your heart together.

[00:11:07.510] - Pamela Brown

Exactly. It is a tough decision, but the key for us is about being... There are many advantages, obviously, of having our own manufacturing site, being able to control the volume, being able to produce at the speed we need to get to market. Really, it comes down to that superior customer experience. The Volvo factory was quite an interesting one, how that came up, obviously being two Swedish brands. It's a nice story that you transform a factory from producing buses to producing heat pumps. We launched the factory this summer, which was great. Seeing heat pumps come off the line there was superb feeling. It was exactly a year on from when we first announced we were going to do that and met all the team in Volvo.

[00:12:05.450] - Jon Slowe

Great. Well, that's super-fast. Let's introduce our second guest, Klara Ottosson, our colleague at LCP Delta. Hello, Klara.

[00:12:14.190] - Klara Ottosson

Hi, Jon. Nice to be on the podcast again.

[00:12:18.440] - Jon Slowe

Klara, you're immersed in the world of heat pumps in the heating sector. How much have you seen this vertical integration that Pamela has been talking Is this brand new, a bit new, or there's a bit of it in the market already?

[00:12:35.670] - Klara Ottosson

I'd say it's pretty new. I mean, it doesn't really follow the traditional heating sector split at all. Typically, the various stakeholders would be really focused on one part of the value chain, so either manufacturing or installing or finance or something in the middle. While we have seen there may be being some overlap, for example, heating manufacturers having installer networks that they will sell directly to. It is generally a three-step distribution that we see. So, the opposite of a vertically integrated business, you have the manufacturer sells to a wholesaler and then to an installing company at the end. So, for heat pumps, it's a little bit different. We're seeing more two steps of fewer stakeholders involved, but the whole vertically integrated is not really something that we've seen much at all. There may be one or two other examples, and they're all very recent.

[00:13:34.600] - Jon Slowe

Would it be fair to say that the installer is still the dominant interface between a customer wanting the heat pump and the heat pump value chain? Independent installers are still really important.

[00:13:50.080] - Klara Ottosson

Yeah, 100 %. I think the installer is crucial in having the relationship with the customer. We consistently see in our customer research that installers are the main point of advice for customers. Something like 80 % of customers will turn to their installer for advice on what heating appliance to buy next. What we have started seeing, though, is that customers are increasingly looking to other types of companies for buying their next heating appliances. They might still turn to their local one-man band who services their boiler, if that's what they have. But when they're buying a heating appliance, they're more looking at large installation companies like Aira or energy companies as well.

[00:14:45.810] - Jon Slowe

Pamela, the pace you must have had to move at in the last year must be quite something to get what must have started off a PowerPoint slide to what you describe now. What's it like working in Aira? Give us a feel. How many employees do you have? Or give us a feel for the energy in the company.

[00:15:09.810] - Pamela Brown

Yeah, I mean, we really do move at pace. I think there was an article published that we've grown 300% over the last 12 months, and that was looking at May '23 to May '24. Now we're probably about 1,300 employees across the three markets we operate in, plus Poland, where our factory is, and then Sweden, our head office. It's been extraordinary pace in terms of hiring, recruiting, key skills, and obviously training people, too. We designed and launched our own heat pump at super-fast speed. From building that and getting it to market, again, was really fast. We're constantly learning and pivoting things and enhancing what our offer needs to be to customers. That could just be the way in which we go to market, for example, or how we find customers and so on. I would say in terms of what the culture is like, we just really move fast. I think when you work in a mission-driven or a purpose-driven company, time is off the essence. The need to decarbonise needs pace. We all need to operate like this. I think that's probably all of us that join the company have that at our heart.

[00:16:39.230] - Pamela Brown

We want to do work that's meaningful. We want to make a positive impact, a lasting impact on the planet, for society, for ourselves, for our children, all of those things that means that we probably work long hours and really dedicate and commit ourselves. We've got four key values as a company, and one of them is dare to fly. That's my personal favourite value, because I think that, to me, it encapsulates everything about Aira. Have a dream, a vision, and then go for it. Build a plan, but maybe you're going to need to move around the pieces a little bit while you're in that plan. Because we often talk about, we're building the plane while flying it, if you've heard that expression.

[00:17:28.860] - Jon Slowe

I want to hear the other values, founder, but on that, what's been hardest so far? Or turn the question around, what are you most proud of so far? Or give us something unexpected that you've come across in your journey that surprised you.

[00:17:48.110] - Pamela Brown

What am I most proud of? I think my proudest moment probably was this summer at the factory, because exactly a year when we stood on stage this year to open it was when we went there to announce to all our Volvo colleagues that the site was transforming to do heat pumps. Then we were a year later, and we've got the factory line. I mean, the precision and excellence. As a brand person myself, even the trolleys we're moving equipment along on are branded in our brand colour. People have made those themselves. It was a really proud moment because also when you stand in such an expensive place and you see these machines, whether it's a laser cutter that's worth a lot of money, you suddenly realise we are making this a reality. Getting Europe off gas, we have a massive role to play. For all those reasons, you feel really proud. What was the other part of the question, which was, what was something that surprised you?

[00:18:56.920] - Jon Slowe

Yeah, unexpected or surprised.

[00:18:59.600] - Pamela Brown

Do you know what, I think maybe we shouldn't have been surprised, but we definitely feel the operational focus right now for us as a business. A big learning has been around building an efficient organisation to serve customers and ensure that we can go quickly from sale to instal, optimise the workforce, because obviously there's cost tied up in a workforce. You need the right number of people for the right number of jobs, and you don't want to be underutilised, and you don't want to have an overutilised workforce. I think we're very much... The first two years was setting a strategy, building the foundations, and bringing... That included a proposition, a product, a website, the marketing strategy, the factory, all of that in the last 24 months. Now very much as we head into winter season, and the season people are thinking about heating systems is the operational focus.

[00:20:04.830] - Jon Slowe

The nitty-gritty issues, my heat pump is not working, how do I turn it up a bit? Can someone come out and help me?

[00:20:12.320] - Pamela Brown

Exactly. It could be anything from that to making sure we've got all our installer teams out installing on jobs through to having enough clean energy experts. They're the people that come into your home and will conduct your first home visit. Having enough of those guys and girls to be able to... From all the leads that we get in from our website. It's really that crop. That's where we're in at the moment. It's not necessarily a surprise, but it's a different gear. We're in this Operational mode now.

[00:20:47.560] - Jon Slowe

Before we forget, the other two…

[00:20:50.670] - Pamela Brown

So, sorry to interrupt but linking back to vertical integration to Klara's point as well. Vertical integration isn't easy for that reason, because in the way that you described what exists today, you have these players that take part of the value chain, and they focus in on that. But what's happened is in taking parts of the value chain and delivering, whether it's a service or a product, the ultimate customer experience, though, is not optimised. I think the heat pump industry, perhaps across Europe, has been focused on probably more what's the commercial opportunity and what can I produce that's going to deliver? Versus I think the hat that we take as error is we have the customer at the heart of it. How do we solve problems for them and deliver this superior experience?

[00:21:45.720] - Jon Slowe

Klara, would you say energy retailers are trying to do that job for customers? I mean, they're definitely not vertically integrated in the heat pump value chain, but they're trying to leverage their energy relationship with a customer and deliver a solution, decarbonised heating solution for customers.

[00:22:04.450] - Klara Ottosson

I mean, I'd say that's probably their end goal. I think some are doing better than others and some are closer to achieving that goal. I mean, you and I worked together on a piece last year on looking at specifically that the role of energy retailers in the HVAC space and just circling back to the whole utilisation that you mentioned, not having underutilisation or over. That's something that was mentioned as a very key barrier for them to take all that in-house. Most of them are using subcontractors or creating installer networks or potentially acquiring an installation business. But I think they're quite scared of having that risk of an underutilised work for us if something happens in the market. But of course, energy retailers are in a great position to take on more of that customer-facing and customer journey because they have such strong relationships with the customer. But then there's also an issue that a lot of customers don't really trust their energy retailers after all the chaos that has been over the past few years.

[00:23:11.780] - Pamela Brown

We would love them to start advertising heat pumps. That would have a really big impact, I think, on the market. Jon, just- Sorry, carry on. To go back to one of your questions about what's... I think you mentioned the challenge. What's this challenge? I think One of the biggest challenges for us as Aira across Europe is really around having the policymaker's support in terms of policies in each market.

[00:23:52.090] - Pamela Brown

One of the biggest challenges for us, actually, is something we try and influence, but is around policy and having the right policy in each market to support adoption of heat pumps. Obviously, that comes in the form of subsidies and grants, and there are varying different levels. Even here in the UK, The Scottish Government have a very generous scheme. They offer a grant and an interest-free loan, which is superb. The UK here offers £7,500 grant when you take up a new heat pump system. In Italy, it's a 65% tax relief bonus. But then you have to go through the paperwork of doing that every year. Then in Germany, again, they have a sophisticated scheme, actually, where there are different levels of subsidies depending on earnings, social economic background and so on. But there are different policies, there are different timings. But when the subsidy changes, that often creates a bit of a hiatus in the market. We see that in Italy right now because their scheme is due to end and a new one to come out. Here in the UK, planning permission, that is a significant It's a significant barrier.

[00:25:16.550] - Pamela Brown

Between 35% and 40% of all of our sales need to go through planning permission. Often planning permission can take from 2-10 months. Mine myself took 10 months. That seems absolutely It's crazy that when people want to upgrade something which is better for the environment, has to go through these lengthy planning permission processes. Some people don't stick it out. Maybe 30% of our customers decide Oh, no, it's too much trouble. I won't bother. But we, obviously, at Aire, we help people through that. We hold their hand, we help them with all the submissions, any surveys that they need doing. We do all of that, but that costs money to do, too.

[00:25:59.210] - Jon Slowe

I guess what you're saying is, going back to your mission, only so much of that mission is in your hands. You need the right policy environment to fulfil that mission that you've set out to focus on. Yeah, and I think that's... I like your attitude. I see some in the industry who spend all their time focusing on what's not right on policy. And yes, we need that. But equally, your focus on the whole value chain on customers and delivering what customers need. I don't know if I'm being mean, Klara, about the heating sector, but I think the heating sector has got a way to go in having that customer-centricity that we often talk about.

[00:26:51.700] - Klara Ottosson

No, I think I agree with that. I think the heating industry, as a lot of the energy industry, moves quite slowly, and I think it's still a little bit stuck maybe in the traditional way of doing things where you install a boiler or something else and that's it. Then you leave the customer to their own devices after that, which is not sustainable in the long-term.

[00:27:15.350] - Pamela Brown

That's why I have it for us, we offer customers a 15-year comfort guarantee, which covers the product, the instal, and actually comfort. We say on the coldest day of the year, your home will be 21 degrees.

[00:27:26.650] - Jon Slowe

I love that guarantee. I absolutely love it because it's like the fear factor of switching to your new heating technology. I've seen elements of it before. In Sweden, the industry developed a heat pump caught, and the idea was you could provide It would help to reduce that fear factor that if something went wrong, the industry would help arbitrate between the installer and you as to why it wasn't working.

[00:27:55.960] - Pamela Brown

Yeah. Jon, that's exactly it. Again, when I go back two years ago and we're looking at what these barriers? Having a poor customer experience back then, and because of all the myths around heat pumps, they don't work, they don't work in cold. They work in England because it's so cold. They've been working in the coldest, darkest corner of Europe for many decades. Do you know what I mean? It's like we're so confident this will work. That is why we offer this guarantee. Then linking it back to the question you asked earlier around, was it important to build our own heat pump? I think because we have done that, we can put these guarantees there.

[00:28:34.810] - Jon Slowe

Yeah, I can imagine a few Chief Risk Officers at a big established company, falling off their chair, if someone said, I want to offer this guarantee. But because you control-

[00:28:48.360] - Pamela Brown

I think it's the right thing for customers.

[00:28:51.240] - Jon Slowe

Yeah. And that's coming through really loud and clear, I guess, is you're driven by what customers need, and you'll do everything you can to put place.

[00:29:01.270] - Pamela Brown

Yeah.

[00:29:03.820] - Jon Slowe

We'll move to the talking new energy crystal ball. I'm absolutely convinced that time goes at a different speed when you're recording podcasts because it feels like we've only just got started. But anyway, let's set the dial this week to 2030. Pamela, for you, what will probably be quite an easy question, what would an elevator pitch for Aira look like in 2030? How would you describe the company and what you've achieved, where you're at in 2030? Klara, for you, slightly different question. How common do you think Aira's approach or more of an integration of the value chain compared to today's three-step distribution that you described is common.

[00:30:32.920] - Jon Slowe

How common will this approach be by 2030? Pamela let's start with you.

[00:30:39.880] - Pamela Brown

We've set our ambition to be in 5 million homes over the next decade, so I think we'll be on our way to that. We should be leading the clean energy tech revolution across Europe, and we hope to have a green skills workforce, probably approaching 20,000 people, and obviously launched in new markets. Heat pumps are obviously the primary heating source for European households. It should be that heat pump should be your go-to replacement for your boiler, that they'll be affordable and accessible for many, many people. I'd love to think that electricity will be on a level playing field with gas, making heat pumps or electrification of any sort then more affordable and accessible. I'd love to think that low-income households will obviously have better access to clean energy tech. And whilst I said heat pumps at the start, for us, obviously, and as you all know, when you start to then add in solar panels, invertor, battery storage, you really then start to unlock even more savings for people, the ability to be self-sufficient, support the grid. There are many bigger advantages of the complete ecosystem. So, I would love to see Aira playing more and more in that sphere.

[00:32:00.090] - Jon Slowe

And in a nutshell, the biggest challenge, an internal challenge to Eira rather than policy challenge, the biggest challenge to achieving that, or one of the challenges to achieving that you'd like to highlight.

[00:32:15.320] - Pamela Brown

Well, just as you described about time, being able to do a lot in a very short period of time. We are completely restless here. But as I say, the mission that we're on, Jon, really, the planet, protecting Earth means we have to work at this pace. That will take extraordinary effort by people like all of us around this table and the role that we have to play It will take investment from the investment community and innovation, furthering innovating products and whether that's everything we believe we're doing here with AI or intelligence, making things smarter and easier, and that is all in the benefit for customers.

[00:33:07.590] - Jon Slowe

Okay, thanks. Klara, how widespread will this approach to vertical integration be or more vertical integration compared to the current industry setup?

[00:33:19.060] - Klara Ottosson

To be honest, I'm a little bit torn. I can definitely see the benefits that Pamela has described. But I really think it would be difficult for existing companies that are already in the to make that switch from how they're operating right now to being at least completely vertically integrated. So that'll be if we have another announcement similar to what Aira did last summer. But how likely does that seem? Like you said, it's only five years away until 2030. That freaking me out a little bit. But I can see companies really adopting some of the other approaches that Aira are already doing. Things like finance, longer guarantees, tariffs, the way you're partnering right now, and offering that whole home solution. That, I think, we'll see a lot more of simply because they need to to stay relevant. But the whole vertically integrated approach, maybe there'll be a couple, but I can't see that being the norm in five years.

[00:34:17.400] - Jon Slowe

I think it's a fair point. You're legacy free, Pamela. You're not encumbered by all the structures, value chains, the existing companies, which is a blessing and a curse. Bless because you're free, but a curse because you've got to invent it all at pace or develop it all at pace.

[00:34:39.700] - Pamela Brown

Yeah. This model perhaps is hard to replicate.

[00:34:47.400] - Jon Slowe

But that makes it valuable then. Absolutely. Okay. Well, I love the customer centricity that shone through this discussion. If we're to decarbonise homes, if homes are going to provide the flexibility that the energy system needs, then we absolutely have to do that in the most customer-centric way we can. Pamela, thanks for your time. I'll let you get back to that pace in those hours that you talked about in driving things forward at Aira. Klara, thanks as always for your perspective and expertise.

[00:35:27.440] - Klara Ottosson

Thank you.

[00:35:28.270] - Jon Slowe

And thanks to everyone listening. We hope you've learnt more about Aira, if you didn't know much about them before, and been inspired by what they're doing, and take away a few new perspectives back to your work in the energy transition. So thanks, Pamela.

[00:35:45.290] - Pamela Brown

Thank you, Jon. It has been great to be with you. Thanks, Klara. Really interesting to hear your perspectives, too.

[00:35:51.070] - Klara Ottosson

Thanks so much.

[00:35:52.510] - Jon Slowe

And we look forward to welcoming you back to the next episode next week. Thanks, and goodbye.

[00:35:58.700] - Sandra Trittin

See you. Bye. Thanks for tuning in. We are excited to bring you captivating conversations from the leading edge of Europe's energy transitions. If you got suggestions for topics or guests for future episodes, please let us know.

[00:36:13.620] - Jon Slowe

And if you're enjoying the podcast, then please do rate it and share it with colleagues. For show notes, transcripts, and more, please visit LCP Delta.