In conversation with... Fredrik Rosenqvist, Qvantum Industries

[00:00:04.640] - Jon Slowe

Welcome to Talking New Energy, a podcast from LCP Delta. I'm Jon Slowe.

[00:00:09.300] - Sandra Trittin

And I'm Sandra Trittin. And together we are exploring how the energy transition is unfolding across Europe through conversations with guests from the leading edge of the transition.

[00:00:19.350] - Jon Slowe

Hello and welcome to the episode. Hi, Sandra.

[00:00:22.760] - Sandra Trittin

Hey, Jon. How are you?

[00:00:24.650] - Jon Slowe

Good, thanks. How are you?

[00:00:26.730] - Sandra Trittin

I'm fine, thank you. It's getting cold outside.

[00:00:30.030] - Jon Slowe

It's getting cold. And I think both of our heat pumps will be running well, hopefully to keep our houses warm this winter, Sandra. But...

[00:00:37.430] - Sandra Trittin

Yes.

[00:00:39.750] - Jon Slowe

So, today we've got a discussion with another new company in the heat pump sector or a new but not so new company. We spoke with AIRA recently and it's really exciting today to speak to another new Swedish heat pump company and explore what they're looking to do in the heat pump sector.

[00:01:03.260] - Sandra Trittin

Yes. And I think what will be exciting is also to look a bit at their positioning in the heat pump market, right?

[00:01:09.270] - Jon Slowe

Okay. Should we get onto it then? Let's say hello to Fredrik Rosenqvist, President and CEO at Qvantum Industries. Hi, Fredrik.

[00:01:19.640] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

Hello. Hello, everybody. Thank you for having me. Looking forward to this conversation.

[00:01:25.100] - Jon Slowe

Well, welcome, Fredrik. Not everyone will know Qvantum. So, do you want to give us an elevator pitch for the company?

[00:01:35.850] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

Absolutely, I'd be happy to. The elevator pitches is probably a long one. We're both a new version of Qvantum, but we're also an old company. The company has been producing heat pumps for the last 31 years, but it came under new management three and a half years ago. What we've gathered within Qvantum is a set of industry veterans from both the heat pump industry, but also from the energy industry. So, we've really gathered some 40 industry professionals that were part of building some of the leading brands, heat pump companies, Scandinavian ones mostly, but also European ones, but also about 30 people that comes from a very forward leaning energy utility, E.ON. And what we are really creating is a heat pump company that is focusing much more on the energy system and to open up also new segments for heat pumps. If you look at the normal heat pump company, they're focused on single family houses, right?

[00:02:46.960] - Jon Slowe

Yeah.

[00:02:47.314] - Sandra Trittin

Mm hmm.

[00:02:47.350] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

So, you have products for the residential area for single family houses. The unique combination that we have created is focusing on both single-family houses, but also for solutions for getting the heat pumps into the cities. And I think that multi-family approach is a bit more unique to just Qvantum, I think.

[00:03:16.330] - Jon Slowe

So, how do you describe yourself as a manufacturer or an energy systems company? You know, going back to what you said about people from E.ON and the heat pump sector and bringing heat pumps and energy systems together.

[00:03:32.290] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

So, I think if you look at the history of how we came about, we, you know, one of the starting points is a team that I led at while working head of business development for E.ON in the Nordics. We were tasked with developing new energy verticals and one of them was built on very forward leaning work by one of the specialists at E.ON. We packaged that as Ectogrid. What we did with... What we did with Ectogrid was to start to cluster heat pumps in bigger systems. So, we connected, not a couple of heat pumps but we built a city quarter solution first in Sweden and then we took those out to other European markets. That's one of the big benefits, working in a large multinational company that you can get access to the sales organisations in other countries and all of a sudden the type of systems that E.ON was able to sell, position and sell and build in other parts of Europe. The biggest one while I was still there was Silvertown in London, but also systems that I think are public now in Italy. And since then E.ON has very successfully continued to work selling large systems.

[00:04:56.090] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

Those systems many times had 5 to 10,000 heat pumps connected into one grid. And of course, this is a new way for a new market for heat pump companies. It was really on the journey back from the UK while having worked on those systems that I realised that I was still at E.ON at that point in time, we needed a new supplier of heat pumps. Someone that understood this segment and was willing to commit to what we needed to develop what we needed. We still needed heat pumps, but everything needed to change and that was, I think, the start of our journey.

[00:05:38.980] - Sandra Trittin

That's really exciting. So, if you have to put it in a nutshell, what makes it different to an average heat pump? Like what is the difference there.

[00:05:53.580] - Sandra Trittin

Several things on one side you would say that nothing is different because it's still a heat pump. But now you need... If you're, if you're connecting 10,000 heat pumps in one system, in one thermal system, well, first of all you may have a different starting temperature. You could go as... Just by starting looking at the standards for heat pumps, you know the standards on how you measure efficiency on heat pumps, they are measured 0 to 35 or 0 to 55. And you know the reason one is focused on floor heating; one is focusing on radiators or tap water. So, that is a very normal way to look at how you dimension a heat pump. But when you're building systems of heat pumps in a thermal grid. The starting point for the decentralised heat pump may be 20 to 25, maybe 30 degrees. So, the standard is not relevant anymore. And then if you are going to work in a new thermal range, then everything changes regarding the power of how much you get out of a normal heat pump. And then you have other changes in terms of where you need to fit it in. Let's say in a multi-family house, in small apartments.

[00:07:09.090] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

Today that market is dominated by wall hung gas boilers.

[00:07:13.690] - Sandra Trittin

Mm hmm.

[00:07:14.000] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

So, all of a sudden you have space requirements, you have new thermal ranges. But also if you're a utility and you're building a system with 10,000 heat pumps, just for the sake of simple math, let's assume that each of them would be 10 kilowatts and you can have a different number and do the math, but that's 100 megawatts. You get the attention from the DSO and the TSO when you want to connect 100 megawatts. So, of course you need to steer them.

[00:07:45.620] - Sandra Trittin

Mm hmm. And you get that attention already today if you just connect one heat pump, right?

[00:07:50.460] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

Correct. And now so you can really switch, turn the tables on that one. If you want to connect one heat pump, you're a problem. If you connect 10,000 heat pumps, but you do it in a flexible way and you give a new control mechanism to the grid, you may actually be part of the solution.

[00:08:09.310] - Jon Slowe

And that's the energy system integration Fredrik, you were talking about.

[00:08:13.170] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

Yes.

[00:08:15.230] - Jon Slowe

Okay, so a lot of listeners may think about one heat pump for one building and that heat pump operating flexibly and providing flexibility services or responding to dynamic tariffs, you're doing that at a different scale. The 10,000 heat pump example, you've got 10,000 heat pumps all working together and I guess a lot more flexibility in that system than one individual heat pump alone.

[00:08:44.670] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

Absolutely. If you look at, first of all, you know, when you go into the multi-family area and go into the cities, you will find since we've built our, you know, designed our buildings in so many different ways, it's not one solution that will work in all of those use cases. You can go in certain countries and in certain buildings, you may have a centralised heat pump, then you will go for a big one or in many other cases you will have to opt for a decentralised solution and have one small heat pumps, a tiny, small heat pump in every apartment. And there will be so many different variants. Here I think it's upon the industry to come up with innovative, smart ways that can scale in every aspect. For us to be able to get gas out of the... Take gas out of the picture.

[00:09:38.150] - Jon Slowe

And that spectrum of one heat pump in one home to a citywide system with 10,000 heat pumps, you're at both ends of that spectrum and everywhere in between.

[00:09:49.310] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

Yes, I think we're a bunch of people that either come from the heat pump industry or the energy industry and we're also a number of entrepreneurs. And if you want to build, if you want to be crazy enough to stand up and take upon the existing heat pump industry and run that race, of course you need to have a fairly well thought through plan, right. And so, how do you build a new heat pump company just in front of this big decarbonisation megatrend? One of the things is of course that, that we need to of course, as with any company, get our cash flows in place. So, we're really building Qvantum in a two phased approach. In the first phase, we're building a company that is producing heat pumps the way you know them. Heat pumps for single family houses, they may be a bit more flexible, they may be a bit more connected. And we had both the benefit and the challenge of having to start with a blank sheet of paper. That means more burden on us initially because we don't have existing cash flows, existing product lines, and it means a lot of liberty in rethinking things.

[00:11:09.810] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

I think where the heat pump industry is standing today, it comes from having produced rather small volumes of heat pumps compared to mass markets like white goods or gas boilers. So, if you get the opportunity to rethink how you want to design the heat pump, how you want to produce it, how you want to source, this is actually, you know, at least a good opportunity to rethink that and design yourself for the ability to produce much larger volumes and at a much more... Making heat pumps much more affordable.

[00:11:46.580] - Jon Slowe

And as you say, you had that core team of seasoned heat pump experts. But I imagine what was really important is get the mindset right to start with... Maybe not a blank sheet of paper, but what could we do rather than what has been done?

[00:12:04.570] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

Absolutely. I think the people that were part of the core thinking of our product portfolio, how it was designed, sourced, designed and built, and how our factories have been built, you know, they've been trying to implement these type of changes in their existing industries. But of course, if you live in a big incumbent industry that is highly successful and you are proposing to do something new, there are many times, of course, you know, that you get the questions, what about this existing production line or will this be competing with our existing product range, etc. So, driving change may actually be a challenge when you are part of a big incumbent and with experience of having developed several factories and several products. I think what we did was to stop developing heat pumps and instead be inspired by industries that are used to develop things for much higher volumes. So, we designed and developed a platform instead. And that means it takes a long time to develop the first product. But once you've designed the first product, then you release... It's very much like the automotive industry. And we've already this year on that platform. We released our first product in January, our second product in February, our third and fourth product in September/October and we will within a few months be releasing our fifth and sixth product on the same platform.

[00:13:40.750] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

And that speed and agility to be able to design and build six different products in let's say, a year and a half is difficult for... If you don't go with a platform thinking.

[00:13:55.550] - Jon Slowe

Anyway, you're talking about the first phase heat pumps, the way you know them, more flexible, more connected. The chat we've just had around platform thinking.

[00:14:05.030] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

Yeah.

[00:14:05.520] - Jon Slowe

The second phase?

[00:14:07.240] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

The second phase is really getting the heat pumps into systems and into the cities. So, that's an entire new market space for, so that's really addressing how to sell energy systems and thermal or heat pump driven energy systems into the multi-family space. So, it's, it's very, very different when you go to market. It's different on how you have to support your customers, and the value chain is different. But it really addresses on how you get, how you build large thermal grids or how you can implement heat pumps on a large scale, so they do not have to, have to be connected to a thermal grid. There are, as you know with heat pumps there are so many different ways to design them, but getting, getting that in place. And I would say that what we did... Have been doing during 2024 is to ramp up our first factory, one product line with two products in one market. What we're about to do next year is to ramp up starting the year with four and ending the year with six products on seven European markets and also starting and ramping up our second factory, all of those what I just said is still focusing on the B2C or the single-family house market. At the same time, we're starting to gear up the focus on the multi-family houses.

[00:15:37.880] - Jon Slowe

The lead time on those multi-family houses. City wise projects lead times a lot longer. Hence from a cash flow perspective, Phase one, get cash through the door with us.

[00:15:48.710] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

Absolutely. You get the point before I need to say it. So, in order to survive the long play where I think we are probably at our best, we need to be successful on the existing market.

[00:16:04.650] - Sandra Trittin

But just quickly for my understanding on that multi-family home heat pump, because this excites me quite a lot. Is it then that the full home will have to refurbish like all the different apartments? Do you know already? Or will it be almost like an air conditioning system where I can decide to put one into my apartment but the other ones not?

[00:16:29.260] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

I think yes and no and yes at the same time. Or I would say like this. The same rules applies as to the single-family houses. Meaning that, you know, when you start to introduce this, of course new build is easiest. It always started by you having a good solution for new build. And then you can get everything right in terms of the radiators, the heating system, having an integrated heating and cooling, you get, you know, that's the easy play to get new build right. But what you asked a super interesting question and I've seen here again, innovation, both technical innovation and business innovation comes into play where some of them, partners of ours in the market are finding ways to implement the infrastructure in their buildings without having to force everyone and they can opt in when they are ready for it. So, you can absolutely end up with... It's a very valid question. Does everyone have to change at the same time? What are the likelihood that you can take that decision in that household or that building or that city quarter and you can see all the obstacles. But here I think entrepreneurs and innovators need to find ways to address it. But yeah, but you're absolutely right. It's easiest with a new build, of course.

[00:17:59.640] - Sandra Trittin

Okay.

[00:18:02.160] - Jon Slowe

Let's, let's move on to energy system integration and flexibility. It's an area that we've talked a lot about on the podcast. So yeah, tell us a bit more about designing flexibility into the system, into the heat pumps and these multi-family systems. What you learn to E.ON on the competencies that you're building at Qvantum, because the first bit you described, the very first bit you described as being a heat pump manufacturer. We haven't talked about routes to market, but another heat pump manufacturer, different one for sure. But the energy system integration, that's something I think is so needed. Is the heating sector and the energy sector coming together. So, really interested to hear how you think about and approach this area.

[00:18:54.350] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

So, I think things that we learned from our work while working for E.ON and E.ON is a very forward leaning utility. I give them... They have excellent teams, and they are doing some really excellent work. Things I was part of doing while at E.ON was building building systems where we could do flexibility for district heating for E.ON. Now E.ON is in Scandinavia or in Sweden, the second largest district heating supplier. So, just by working with the thermal inertia of the building stock in the large grids that E.ON operates, we could avoid a lot of the peakers being utilised. So, we did some large-scale deployments using thermal inertia. Basically, it's as simple as using, you know, understanding the magnitude of that inertia. If we increase during the low load hours the temperature in your building with 1 degree Celsius, you will not notice. That is the experience you will not notice. And that actually has a massive impact when you do have peak loads, when everyone wants to shower and in the morning hours. And you can really avoid using the peakers. And that has a great environmental impact and both environmental and economic impact.

[00:20:17.510] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

So, thermal inertia is one, one part of it. If you go over to the other part, if you design a good heat pump, I think as we all know it should be energy efficient, right. And an energy efficient heat pump uses as little electricity as possible. And we measure that, the standard measures that with the CoP (Coefficient of performance) at 0.35-0.55. That's, that's how we do it. And that's all true if the electricity price is constant.

[00:20:49.790] - Jon Slowe

Yeah. And that's an energy measurement, not a power measurement.

[00:20:55.470] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

So, is the electricity price constant? Yeah, I would argue increasingly not.

[00:21:01.550] - Jon Slowe

Increasingly not.

[00:21:02.950] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

I would argue that that is the commodity that you buy that has the most volatility, all categories. And where we're going in the world when it comes to the prices of electricity, it's going to continue to be volatile. So, can you design a heat pump purely with the CoP race? You can't. It's the wrong metrics. It's a good metrics. You need to be good there. But it's not enough. So, what we....

[00:21:36.590] - Jon Slowe

It's not the only metric that you should design.

[00:21:38.530] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

No, it's not the only metrics. What we've designed, what we've been able to do since we had to redesign our platform from scratch, we've designed a heat pump that can go much higher in temperature. And as a good engineer, you know that means you would get a lower CoP, right. But that's math. If the electricity markets tell you with a highly volatile price, you can, by simple math, understand when you can get a very much higher economical CoP. So, what we're launching that is under the brand eCoP, which is much more interesting and much more relevant for the energy systems that you. That's the reason why the energy markets are changing the electricity price is because they want you to be flexible. It's not to punish you, right. It's because they would like to give you a bonus if you use it when it's easier for the electricity markets and when you have more renewable assets available.

[00:22:43.760] - Jon Slowe

So, you mentioned thermal inertia of buildings, of heat networks being able to design those high temperatures. That's another way in which you can provide more flexibility.

[00:22:54.950] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

Right. So, we're adding insulation on the heat pump. We're redesigning a couple of nitty gritty details inside so that we are very comfortable running it at very high temperatures.

[00:23:05.890] - Jon Slowe

How high? What sort of temperature?

[00:23:09.430] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

It can go up to 90 degrees C...

[00:23:12.190] - Jon Slowe

Okay. Wow.

[00:23:12.518] - Sandra Trittin

Wow!

[00:23:12.590] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

Celsius. And of course, you have to work with immersion heater if you want to get that high. And its only math that decides if you do.

[00:23:21.070] - Jon Slowe

Yeah, yeah. If you've got negative power prices, then why not?

[00:23:25.540] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

Why not, why not? If you're producing PV at a low cost on your rooftop and you're getting nothing from the grid during the middle of the day, why should you export it?

[00:23:35.830] - Jon Slowe

Yeah.

[00:23:37.340] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

So, there are many use cases where you can utilise this. So, we've redesigned the heat pump in that aspect. We've also redesigned a couple of things inside the heat pump that enables us to kind of supercharge and use the water tank that is normally used for hot water also as a buffer for the radiator system.

[00:24:01.120] - Jon Slowe

Okay. So yeah, as you were saying earlier, this is a different way of thinking when it comes to designing a heat pump.

[00:24:06.640] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

It's a different way of thinking. And of course, when you get our heat pump installed, our heat pump works like any other heat pump, focusing on the CoP and then through software, you enable the cost saving mode that takes you to a better economical CoP.

[00:24:22.960] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

And that energy management part of that then if from one heat pump in one home through to a heat network with thousands of heat pumps, is that energy management within Qvantum as well, or is that where you interface or as well... You interface with aggregators, flexibility, service providers to access the market values?

[00:24:44.780] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

I think the answer there is yes and yes.

[00:24:47.220] - Jon Slowe

Yes.

[00:24:49.100] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

So, I don't believe very much in proprietary systems or forcing people or forcing you into an ecosystem. You will be part of an ecosystem if you think that is the most beneficial to you. So, our platform is open so, if you have and want to connect your Qvantum bought heat pump into another engine that wants to optimise, you're welcome to. There are open APIs, and other companies can integrate and take over. We are of course building the same thing ourselves and offering that as an integrated service, if you like it.

[00:25:23.080] - Sandra Trittin

Mm hmm.

[00:25:25.450] - Jon Slowe

Yeah. And again, that sort of designed. That's... You have not luxury because you've got a big challenge, design everything from scratch, but you could design that into your system.

[00:25:35.860] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

I think normal heat pump companies don't bring a lot of, you know, utility people with them. They see no use of the utility people. But here you have a big benefit of the thinking that you have when you are operating running energy like the electrical grid or thermal grids.

[00:25:55.460] - Sandra Trittin

But that's also interesting from an organisational perspective, right. Because in the end you need to run two companies in one, like one focusing on the hardware production, on installation etc. And the other one fully on software, where I think it also requires totally different types of people, right. Types of mindsets. But in the end, you need to still bring them both together.

[00:26:21.080] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

You know, I think it's in the end, when we're looking a bit further ahead, we are, even though we have large factories, we are to an equal extent a software company as we are a hardware company. And we're right now growing, recruiting a lot and looking for competence. And actually, when we've been interviewing people that have been seeking jobs here, many of them really enjoy their current employers and they like their jobs and they are team leaders there. But by the end of the day, when we ask them, why do you even want to come to us because you like your job, and you like your challenge? It is very much the answer is my company does not understand software. They do not understand that, and I do. And I believe in that much of the future potential of the systems will be enabled through, through that type of technology and competence. I think I had a similar experience when I, you know, I'm a serial entrepreneur. I built companies while working for Saab, a defence contractor. So, I grew up as an engineer in that organisation and then I went over to the corporate venture arm...

[00:27:47.620] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

What looking at Saab as a company when I joined in 1996, all the corporate managers, all the head managers, everyone that had made a career at Saab had been part of the major product that made Saab successful in the 1980s and the 1990s, which was the Gripen Fighter. And it was actually structural engineers.

[00:28:12.090] - Jon Slowe

Yeah.

[00:28:12.490] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

Now, the key technology that Saab was winning deals on was not the structural integrity of the fighter anymore, being able to do very advanced carbon fibre structures. It was not now over to the performance of the radar. And then another 10 years later, if you see on the corporate management of Saab, you see that those people have now made their careers and are now leading the company. And now, of course, what a company wins on is probably cyber. So, the corporate management is many times at least a decade behind in the leading technology. We are probably ourselves already behind. We should be much more focused on AI than we are... We are developing a lot of AI components into our products, but not at all to the same extent as we should be doing.

[00:29:02.420] - Jon Slowe

But you're definitely not purely a heat pump manufacturer?

[00:29:06.660] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

No, we're not a hardware company.

[00:29:08.180] - Jon Slowe

Yeah. Fredrik, we better move on to the crystal ball now because time's getting the better of us. So, I'd like to set the crystal ball this week to 2035, 10 years away. Can you briefly give us an elevator pitch or a couple of sentences on Qvantum in 2035? And maybe the single biggest challenge you see from getting from where you are today to there.

[00:29:38.360] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

So, I am an entrepreneur and that means that I'm a bit optimistic, right? 2035 is pushing it, but I think the vision that we have for where we want to take energy systems and decarbonisation is, I think it can best be described with a simile. If you look at other megatrends that have changed things in the world. In the 1990s, you had cellular phones coming into the industry to the world, right? In the 1980s, no one had a cell phone. In the late 1990s, everyone had a cell phone. And then you had the smartphone, right? Somewhere in between there you had new infrastructure coming to the world. It was called fibre. The first five/ten years everyone looked at fibre and said, how relevant is that? And then that is rolled out, etc. So, what I'm really going at is that in a 10, but probably 10 plus years timeframe, what we are working for and what we would see as the vision is that when our city planners and our mayors are planning their cities, they will not only make sure that you get fibre, because they do nowadays, but that you get... And they're actually going to take away one infrastructure that you already have, which is the gas grid, they should really stop building that one and they should be introducing a new thermal grid.

[00:31:11.240] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

If you introduce the thermal grid and you introduce, and this is as basic as before, you, if you have an expansion area before you give a green light to getting a building permit, you need of course have water and sewage, you need electricity and you need roads. But you also need a thermal grid and if you have a thermal grid, everyone in that area should connect their thermal need heating and cooling to that grid.

[00:31:41.020] - Jon Slowe

And the biggest....

[00:31:42.190] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

Yeah, if we can end up there, then I think we're in a good place. Yeah.

[00:31:47.820] - Jon Slowe

And the biggest challenge for Qvantum to succeed in that future or help create that future?

[00:31:54.260] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

Well, I think the biggest challenge here is this is a massive movement. This is not something that one company can do by itself.

[00:32:01.980] - Jon Slowe

Yeah.

[00:32:02.850] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

We need every company that are interested in taking part of creating a totally new market to be part of that is to make sure that we create the new market. We're quite happy that we made the first two transitions I talked about was created a new telecom industry, right. The first ones were Ericsson and Nokia, the last one and then it was exchanged to Samsung and Apple, right. But we need something similar, a coalition of the willing that engages on this and then we need to engage the city planners and the mayors.

[00:32:41.350] - Jon Slowe

Well, Fredrik, it's been a fascinating discussion. I really love the vision and the focus of Qvantum and thanks for sharing some of the details on your journey. Sandra, any key takeaways from your side?

[00:33:01.580] - Sandra Trittin

Yes. So, for me there are two things. So, if I look on the hardware side, what I found really exciting is that platform thinking because I started my career in consulting working also for the automotive industry, where that platform thinking came from and that's really exciting to replicate that into other industries. And I fully agree that this will increase speed to market tremendously. So, this is one key takeaway then on the software space what I really like is that both have to work together, right. So, the software has an impact on the hardware, but the hardware also has an impact on the software. And if you develop both together, if you're in that lucky position on doing so, then you can derive quite some value for the consumer, but then also for the energy space and then overall for the community. So, this is something to have these both pieces together. And we see that continuously now working also in other areas of the industry, right, where solar and storage, getting more controlled EV chargers, getting more controlled heat pumps, that this seems to be really the direction we are going to. So, this is... These are my two takeaways. And how about you?

[00:34:32.800] - Jon Slowe

Like I really love the. It's a double-edged sword, doesn't it? The luxury of having not being an incumbent and designing everything from the beginning as you wish. But the challenge that brings of getting scale, getting traction, getting revenues growing. So, yeah, I think I completely agree with your platform thinking software together and hopefully Qvantum can get the traction it needs to deliver the vision that Fredrik described.

[00:35:08.750] - Jon Slowe

Okay, we better draw it to a close there. Thanks to everyone for listening and hope you enjoyed the episode and learning more about Qvantum and look forward to welcoming you back next week. Thanks, and goodbye.

[00:35:20.220] - Fredrik Rosenqvist

Thank you very much. Bye.

[00:35:21.940] - Jon Slowe

Thank you.

[00:35:23.880] - Sandra Trittin

Thanks for tuning in. We are excited to bring you captivating conversations from the leading edge of Europe's energy transitions. If you got suggestions for topics or guests for future episodes, please let us know.

[00:35:35.800] - Jon Slowe

And if you're interested, join the podcast. Then please do rate it and share it with colleagues. For show notes, transcripts and more, please visit lcpdelta.com.